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The Official Clean House Thread.


Fine...

---
"It's just not a very sexy market at this time." - Brian "Big Sexy" Sabean.
9/24/2009, 5:07 pm Link to this post   
 
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Re: The Official Clean House Thread.


quote:

Freshbreaker wrote:

quote:

VASFfan wrote:

quote:

Freshbreaker wrote:

I think the team only moderately exceeding expectations and there is no doubt that it was despite of the often indefensible management of Bochy. I think most of us came into the season expecting something around .500. I don't think anyone expected Uribe to be near 300 with 15 HR, or Zito be be sub 4, or Pablo to be top 5 in batting, or Wilson to have a sub 3 ERA or Sadowski to get 3 wins or the Bullpen to be the best in baseball for much of the season. The players overachieved, not Bochy.



Oh, puh-leeze. MODERATELY exceeded expectations? Expecting around .500??? That's historical revisionism at its worst. A lot of people on this board thought, before the season and even early on (remember all the pant-!@#$ that went on when the season started badly?), that this team was going to sink lower than the Titanic. (And probably faster.) I dare say NO ONE thought this team was going to be seriously competing for the playoffs. Hell, Bhaakon (based on his incessant complaining) STILL doesn't believe the Giants did anything this year.



I'm not sure who is playing the revisionist history game. I thought the team would be around .500, and I certainly did not feel like I was alone in that sentiment. I think that if we were to go back and look over all the posts, and tally people's opinions we'd find a large number of people who anticipated improvement over last season's 72 wins. I felt like .500 was pretty attainable considering the Padres attempts at self mutilation over the offseason and the Rockies loss of Holiday (that obviously didn't shakeout). Maybe my recollection of the consensus board opinion is off, but please don't try to tell me I thought something different than what I did—nothing is more offensive.

And just to clarify, if you are soiling yourself about my loose bowels, does that mean you are all for a new contract for Sabean and Bochy? Just want to clarify that. If so why? and if not you've got no business calling me a pant****ter.



I see the Mormon church doesn't teach reading. Ok, to recapitulate, you'll note for instance that I didn't say anything about YOU pantshitting, but rather it was directed to the majority of this board that was screaming about how shitty the team was and would be. I haven't a clue whether you were among them (though i wouldn't be surprised if you were, since your opinions about the Giants seem to wax and wane with your menstrual cycle). As far as how the people on this board felt, I direct you to Merkin's reposting of the board poll that was done. Looks to me like maybe 3/4s were predicting sub-500 ball, and some were projecting performance well below that. In fact, as many people thought the Giants would be TEN games or more below 500 as all those who said they would be at 500 or above! So I was correct about what I said about people expecting a poor showing this year, and you were WRONG about people generally expecting .500. You say that you were expecting 500, ok, I'll accept [sign in to see URL] I'd be happy to see you repost a pre-April statement where you publicly stated that. But in any event, stop being such a narcissist and interpreting everything I said as being about YOU. Very little about what I said had anything to do about you. However, THIS is directed toward [sign in to see URL] up.

To answer your nonsequitur of a question about Sabean and Bochy (what I originally wrote had NO logical relationship to my feelings about them)...I'm honestly ambivalent. Normally I think someone who has produced the improvement they have should be rewarded with a contract extension. But in their case, I'm not so sure. I think a fair assessment of Bochy is that he is a solid manager, probably in the average to slightly-above-average range, but nobody's going to confuse him with Jim Leyland. If we fire him, I won't lose sleep over it but on the other hand I think we could do far worse. The facile suggestions I see people make (e.g., promote Steve Decker, hire Tony LaRussa) sound nice superficially but I'm not convinced either would work. (i.e., speaking somewhat metaphorically, Norwich is a long way from San Francisco.) Anyone else, hell, they may improve on Bochy but maybe not.

I've been a defender of Sabean in the past, but I'm wobbling. I think he's good at evaluating talent and would be thrilled if he were the Giants farm director. Unfortunately, as GM his tendency to overpay and overrely on mid- to late-career vets disturbs me and I HATE (repeat, HATE) his reflexive tendency to trade young talent for old guys who might help us win this year. I get that he says when you have a chance to win you have to go for it, BUT if you let your farm talent ripen maybe you win MORE in the future and in any event his trades seem to constantly turn belly-up. I wasn't crazy about Sanchez for Alderson at the time but I thought, ok, I can live with it. But I HATED (repeat, HATED) the Garko for Barnes trade. And as it turns out, both trades did NOTHING for us. Again, there's the matter of if you dump a competent GM like Sabean, can you replace him with someone better? So I wouldn't rush out to fire him, but if it happens, fine.

Of the two, I'm arguably more in favor of dumping Sabean than Bochy.

Last edited by VASFfan, 9/24/2009, 5:31 pm
9/24/2009, 5:28 pm Link to this post   
 
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Re: The Official Clean House Thread.


Do you have proof that Obama wasn't born in Kenya? Any before you ask, no, I don't have proof that he was.

America, you wanted him, you got [sign in to see URL]

Of course, McCain wasn't a much better choice. Hard to believe that in our great big country, those were the two best choices we had for president. *sigh*


I hate politics! emoticon
9/24/2009, 6:38 pm Link to this post   
 
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The Official Clean House Thread.


As for cleaning house. Does anyone agree that Fred Lewis has had ample chance to prove himself and should be let go? I thought he was going to be a player, but it looks less and less a possibility all the time.
9/24/2009, 6:43 pm Link to this post   
 
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Re: The Official Clean House Thread.


Why would the Giants want to get rid of their second best outfielder (behind Torres, of course)?
9/24/2009, 7:59 pm Link to this post   
 
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Re: The Official Clean House Thread.


Are you trying to say that Lewis is the Giants 2nd best outfielder?
9/24/2009, 9:38 pm Link to this post   
 
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Re: The Official Clean House Thread.


quote:

Freshbreaker wrote:

Duke, I'm counting on you to do what's best for the organization. Fire Bruce Bochy and the puppeteer who hired him.

A six year playoff drought is not Teh Giant Way. Trading top prospects for guys who are far from difference makers is not the Giant Way either. Signing guys who look good crashing into fences but can't distinguish a strike zone isn't either.

This clown called Brian and his little buddy Bochy need to. Be wiped from the organizational map.



If someone would have told you on March 1st that the Giants would win 85+ games and Bochy had to run a different lineu out everyday to do it. Would you have said he should lose his job?
I think he may be a MOY candidate.
9/24/2009, 10:55 pm Link to this post   
 
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Re: The Official Clean House Thread.


quote:

losgigantes wrote:

I want Whiteside + Posey @ C

Throw a billion dollars at Holiday. I don't care if it's 7/140. Just !@#$ do it. It's not MY money.

Pickup Freddy's option. It's only 8M people. That's Randy Winn's salary right there. If he hits like he always does, it'll look much better than Velez @2B. Yes, I like Velez. But he's no batting champ and allstar, sorry.

Trade Durty + Ishi + Whoeverelsetheywantnotnamedlincecain for Prince Fielder or another monster 1B masher.

Schierholtz in RF, of course.

Resign UUUUUUUribe. Try for 2yr deal, but I'm fine with 3. Plug him in at SS.

!@#$ release Renteria

2yr deal to Penny, if possible

2B Sanchez
RF Schierholtz
3B Pablo
LF Holiday
1B Fielder
SS Uribe
CF Rowand
C Whiteside

Lincecum
Cain
Bumgarner
Zito
Penny/Whoever



Who leads off?
9/24/2009, 10:58 pm Link to this post   
 
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Re: The Official Clean House Thread.


quote:

sayheykid1 wrote:

quote:

Freshbreaker wrote:

Duke, I'm counting on you to do what's best for the organization. Fire Bruce Bochy and the puppeteer who hired him.

A six year playoff drought is not Teh Giant Way. Trading top prospects for guys who are far from difference makers is not the Giant Way either. Signing guys who look good crashing into fences but can't distinguish a strike zone isn't either.

This clown called Brian and his little buddy Bochy need to. Be wiped from the organizational map.



If someone would have told you on March 1st that the Giants would win 85+ games and Bochy had to run a different lineu out everyday to do it. Would you have said he should lose his job?
I think he may be a MOY candidate.



We don't have to look beyond the last 4 hours to understand the case against Bochy. It's not like he's getting fired in the middle of a contract. His deal is up, and I respectfully disagree with your opinion.

---
Travis Ishikawa is NOT a competent first baseman.
9/24/2009, 11:00 pm Link to this post   
 
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Posts: 2276
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Re: The Official Clean House Thread.


quote:

Freshbreaker wrote:

I think the team only moderately exceeding expectations and there is no doubt that it was despite of the often indefensible management of Bochy. I think most of us came into the season expecting something around .500. I don't think anyone expected Uribe to be near 300 with 15 HR, or Zito be be sub 4, or Pablo to be top 5 in batting, or Wilson to have a sub 3 ERA or Sadowski to get 3 wins or the Bullpen to be the best in baseball for much of the season. The players overachieved, not Bochy.



Really, I don;t reacall you predicting 85 wins.

If Bochy was handcuffed by crapopy Sabean moves, didn't he overachieve?

Maybe Sabes thought the pen would be great after he put so much effort into improving it over the offseason?
9/24/2009, 11:03 pm Link to this post   
 


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