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Xellos007
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Sabean talks about the draft
That is my opinion.
Right now Lowry until he can prove 2005 is not a fluke is more valuable to the giants then as trade bait.
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2/25/2008, 7:31 pm
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asu9856
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Sabean talks about the draft
Sabean was at the game?!?!? !@#$ i was at that game. Can't believe I didn't see him
--- "Am I a special motherfucking human, or what?" Barry Bonds
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2/25/2008, 7:53 pm
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philramirez
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Location: Phoenix
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Re: Sabean talks about the draft
quote: asu9856 wrote:
Sabean was at the game?!?!? !@#$ i was at that game. Can't believe I didn't see him
Do you know why Raoul Torrez isn't starting at short. I know he can't hit but most publications still had him penciled in as the starter... Anyways I played against that guy since I was 10.
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2/25/2008, 9:00 pm
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chefjuan
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Re: Sabean talks about the draft
I am not impressed. Sabean claims that drafting pitching is such a great plan yet every two years or so he goes out and spends stupid amounts of money of bullpen help.
Every time he gets called out for bad drafting, they finger always goes to Cain, Timmy and Lowry. But if you keep taking pitchers, shouldn't you also eventually come up with a bullpen, too? I mean, those guys are pitchers, right? It looks like Wilson may work out, but how long has it been? How many 'mandos, worrells, klines, stantons, fasseros, browers and hermansons are they going to go through? The fact remains, in 10 years there are 6 pitchers that have really become pretty good pitchers (Cain, Tim, Lowry, Corriea, Henny and Linebrink) That's still not a very good track record.
So is the idea that you throw as many pitchers against the wall and hope a couple stick? It such a deeply flawed philosophy. And the idea that the young pitchers are some sort of currency is even MORE flawed since there are so few that work out.
Six players out of 550 picks in ten years have been become solid major leaguers. I guess seven if you count Boof Bonser. Helluva track record.
--- "If the Pilgrims had landed in California the East Coast would still be wilderness"
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2/25/2008, 9:13 pm
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MarcoPolo666
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Re: Sabean talks about the draft
quote: chefjuan wrote:
Every time he gets called out for bad drafting, they finger always goes to Cain, Timmy and Lowry.
Only the last 2-3 years. Before that, he was zero-for-sixteen.gazillion
quote: chefjuan wrote:
How many 'mandos, worrells, klines, stantons, fasseros, browers and hermansons are they going to go through? The fact remains, in 10 years there are 6 pitchers that have really become pretty good pitchers (Cain, Tim, Lowry, Corriea, Henny and Linebrink) That's still not a very good track record.
First, who cares about cheap bullpen help? A crappy #3/4 starter costs $8M-$10M. Random bullpen help costs $2M. Unless, of course, you are talking about signing FA closers to closer contracts (Armando, Nen, etc). Signing closers is *most often* a really stupid thing to do. Instead, you sign random "setup men" and let them close for cheap (or grow them yourself. Paying them $7-$9M is for morons.
Second, you only list pitchers that were successful with the Giants. Did you forget about a certain Joe Nathan? Maybe one or two others?
quote: chefjuan wrote:
Six players out of 550 picks in ten years have been become solid major leaguers. I guess seven if you count Boof Bonser. Helluva track record.
You miscounted. And Sabes covered his ass by trading guys away for "veteran" help. We never had to suffer through the poor performances of many of our draftees. (Yes, that's tongue in cheek.)
--- Do not suggest trading for somebody for only two years (unless the Giants dump a crappy contract)
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2/25/2008, 9:32 pm
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FATALFART
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Sabean talks about the draft
drafting pitching pitching doesnt seem to work these days. teams are refusing to trade their top hitters and are signing them to long term deals as soon as they make the bigs. the young positional player has become the golden goose.
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2/25/2008, 10:00 pm
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asu9856
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Re: Sabean talks about the draft
quote: philramirez wrote:
quote: asu9856 wrote:
Sabean was at the game?!?!? !@#$ i was at that game. Can't believe I didn't see him
Do you know why Raoul Torrez isn't starting at short. I know he can't hit but most publications still had him penciled in as the starter... Anyways I played against that guy since I was 10.
Yeah exactly. I think we talked about his when I met you that one time a long time ago. He can't hit and Champagnie can. He probably will take over the 2B job soon though because Elmore can't hit or field.
--- "Am I a special motherfucking human, or what?" Barry Bonds
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2/25/2008, 10:41 pm
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MarcoPolo666
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Re: Sabean talks about the draft
quote: FATALFART wrote:
teams are refusing to trade their top hitters and are signing them to long term deals as soon as they make the bigs. the young positional player has become the golden goose.
Hmm. And what happens when one trades a top pitcher? Or even a mediocre pitcher that has just had a good year? Cha CHING! Prospects out the yin-yang.
You're keeping your blinders on. Good, established players are not cheap - pitchers OR position players. That's why Sabes should be trading for propsects - to hope fully grow a few of our own, for cheap.
--- Do not suggest trading for somebody for only two years (unless the Giants dump a crappy contract)
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2/25/2008, 11:07 pm
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Bhaakon
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Sabean talks about the draft
There's no denying that good young pitching is worth alot on the trade market, it's just fallacious to claim that it's worth more than good young hitting.
The problem is that, while ther Giants have been well above average at developing pitchers, their overall development (pitching and hitting combined) is still below average, and too much of what the Giants have developed has been lost in flatly bad trades. The whole point of focusing on developing pitching is to use the surplus to acquire young hitters, but the Giants' surplus has been both insufficient for the task and poorly spent.
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2/26/2008, 12:00 am
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TheMalcontent
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Re: Sabean talks about the draft
quote: Bhaakon wrote:
There's no denying that good young pitching is worth alot on the trade market, it's just fallacious to claim that it's worth more than good young hitting.
The problem is that, while ther Giants have been well above average at developing pitchers, their overall development (pitching and hitting combined) is still below average, and too much of what the Giants have developed has been lost in flatly bad trades. The whole point of focusing on developing pitching is to use the surplus to acquire young hitters, but the Giants' surplus has been both insufficient for the task and poorly spent.
Yeah, our pitching surplus has been spent on aging vets with plenty of grit on them.
I agree with you here, talent, any talent whether pitching or hitting will net good return.
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2/26/2008, 12:32 am
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