">
Runboard.com
You're welcome.
Please
Read Rules Click for Rules


ALL Open Forum Baseball Mules/HF's ATT Park FAQ&Admin

v

runboard.com       Sign up (learn about it) | Sign in (lost password?)


Page:  1  2 

 
BruteSentiment Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

HALL OF FAME POSTER
Global user

Registered: 10-2006
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2050
Reply | Quote
Jim Callis talks Billy Beane/A's Trades


Callis talked about Billy Beane in today's Ask BA, and surprisingly (to me, at least), he expresses doubt that these trades will help the A's in the long run. He doesn't appear to like them at all, and even took Beane to task about his recent track record in finding/developing prospects.

quote:

Billy Beane has proven himself to be one of the game's best general managers, but how he escapes blame for the collapse of his farm system is beyond me. Yes, big league promotions have thinned out Oakland's store of minor league talent, but with 19 first-round or supplemental first-round picks in the last six drafts, there's no excuse. Funny, I seem to remember reading a book a few years ago about how the A's were revolutionizing the draft.



]Link

About time someone took on Beane in the major media.

---
SFDugout.com - It's back! Top 50 Giants Prospects currently running!
1/8/2008, 10:36 pm Link to this post   
 
Every6thDay Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

MOST VALUABLE POSTER
Global user

Registered: 10-2006
Posts: 963
Reply | Quote
Re: Jim Callis talks Billy Beane/A's Trades


Whatever. This doesn't make Sabean look any better.
1/8/2008, 11:45 pm Link to this post   
 
MarcoPolo666 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

LIVING LEGEND
Global user

Registered: 07-2007
Posts: 7515
Reply | Quote
Re: Jim Callis talks Billy Beane/A's Trades


quote:

BruteSentiment wrote:

Callis talked about Billy Beane in today's Ask BA, and surprisingly (to me, at least), he expresses doubt that these trades will help the A's in the long run. He doesn't appear to like them at all, and even took Beane to task about his recent track record in finding/developing prospects.

quote:

Billy Beane has proven himself to be one of the game's best general managers, but how he escapes blame for the collapse of his farm system is beyond me. Yes, big league promotions have thinned out Oakland's store of minor league talent, but with 19 first-round or supplemental first-round picks in the last six drafts, there's no excuse. Funny, I seem to remember reading a book a few years ago about how the A's were revolutionizing the draft.



]Link

About time someone took on Beane in the major media.




Um, Travis Buck? Houston Street? Andre Ethier? Nick Swisher? Joe Blanton? Mark Teahen? Bobby Crosby?

I actually think that Bean has done at least as good a job of selecting AND developing as Sabean. I'm pretty sure that the A's have drafted more *successful* major leaguers since 2001 than the Giants. The reason that the A's farm is in shambles is greatly because they get called up to the majors (where they are GOOD and perform) and/or have been traded away (like Swisher).




---
Do not suggest trading for somebody for only two years (unless the Giants dump a crappy contract)
1/8/2008, 11:58 pm Link to this post   
 
BruteSentiment Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

HALL OF FAME POSTER
Global user

Registered: 10-2006
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2050
Reply | Quote



Funny you mention Ethier and [sign in to see URL], good players the A's drafted. But Ethier was traded for an trainwreck of an player that was DFA'd for nothing a little after a year later and a utility who batted .102 for the A's. And Teahen was traded for the supposed answer at closer, but who ended up pitching just 54 games over two seasons for the A's.

You could also add Bonderman into this list (since we're including 2001). The fruits of that traded are complicated, but not much better - A veteran pitcher who had a mid-4's ERA in a little over two years who then got traded for Bobby Kielty, who finally got released midseason last year for nothing, and two prospects who never made the majors. (One became the throw-in for the Durazo trade, but was not a key part of it and was easily replacable in it.)

The point of drafting well is to build well with it. The A's have already let half of that list go, with just two Single-A prospects and a questionable outfielder to show for it today. And Crosby, for all his hype, is still an oft-injured .240 career hitter.

And that's all they got with (as Callis mentioned) 16 first and supplemental round picks in six years (not including the 2007 draft). Five Major Leaguers (including Danny Putnum), one of whom is questionable in terms of actual worth.

If the Sabean comparison is to be brought up, with 8 picks in the same [sign in to see URL], Hennessey, Cain, and Lincecum. Nearly as many major leaguers (and arguably as many impact ones) in just half the top picks.

EDIT: We could turn it into five major leaguers, as the Giants have Kline, who was gotten for Hawkins via first round pick Aardsma.

Last edited by BruteSentiment, 1/9/2008, 12:01 pm


---
SFDugout.com - It's back! Top 50 Giants Prospects currently running!
1/9/2008, 11:45 am Link to this post   
 
irishbum Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

HALL OF FAME POSTER
Global user

Registered: 10-2006
Posts: 1869
Reply | Quote
Re: Jim Callis talks Billy Beane/A's Trades


brute seriously dude you are a knowledable baseball fan and good guy, but dont compare Sabean with Beane when it comes to player development because there is no such comparison


Lincecum fell into Sabean's lap, Lowry is a nice little pitcher and Hennessey is hardly an impact pitcher


I will give him props on Cain as he wasnt as highly touted as Lincecum was coming out of UW


Giambi, Tejada, Street, Swisher, Blanton, Crosby, the list goes on an on.... and the reason these guys arent with the A's anymore as nothing to do with Beane but rather their cheap owners


id like to see Sabean win consistently with Beane's payroll



1/9/2008, 11:57 am Link to this post   
 
asu9856 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Banned user
Global user

Registered: 10-2006
Location: Sacramento, CA soon
Posts: 2650
Reply | Quote



Giambi was in Oakland way before Beane was and Tejada wasn't signed by Beane either. The only people you could say Beane really developed are Swisher and Blanton. Crosby sucks donkey dick and Chavez, Zito, Mulder, Hudson, etc. were all drafted before Beane became the GM. He isn't God's gift to GM's, and he has made his share of dumb moves too (Loaiza, Kendall, re-signing Chavez, etc.).

1 playoff series win in his [sign in to see URL] with a very small payroll, but it wasn't Beane who drafted the main guys that made it to the playoffs every year.

---
"Am I a special motherfucking human, or what?" Barry Bonds
1/9/2008, 12:08 pm Link to this post   
 
22TheThrill Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

HALL OF FAME POSTER
Global user

Registered: 10-2006
Posts: 2774
Reply | Quote



A more interesting question would be, what would Beane do today if he were running the Giants? What deals would he do and what players would he acquire? How would he restructure the organization?

Just askin'

---
------------
Baseball is like church. Many attend but few understand.
Leo Durocher



1/9/2008, 12:10 pm Link to this post   
 
Every6thDay Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

MOST VALUABLE POSTER
Global user

Registered: 10-2006
Posts: 963
Reply | Quote
Re: Jim Callis talks Billy Beane/A's Trades


From the tone of the original post in this thread, I'd say some people think Beane would do a worse job than Sabean.

I don't know that giving up on trying to win your division is worse than being delusional about competing within your division, so, personally, I don't think I could answer the question as to who would do worse as a GM -- this year. Clearly, in years past, Beane would've made Sabean look like the antique he clearly is.
1/9/2008, 1:07 pm Link to this post   
 
barrance Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

MOST VALUABLE POSTER
Global user

Registered: 07-2007
Posts: 859
Reply | Quote
Re: Jim Callis talks Billy Beane/A's Trades


Not sure if Beane would do a better or worse job than Sabean... I just think that everyone seems to make Beane out to be this genius GM, when in fact, he might be highly overrated. He gets all this praise for making these "brilliant" trades that rips the other team off, but he has his fair share of misses.

Everyone talks about how he ripped off the Cards in the trade for Mulder, but what did he get for Hudson? He was the GM behind the McGwire trade too, right? Both those trades brought zilch to the A's. And for all the talk about the Moneyball draft, none of those guys have turned out to be anything more than okay major leaguers (Blanton is okay).

I mentioned this in another post... people praise Beane for his forward thinking, getting the most value back for his stars, blah, blah, blah. But if he re-tools every 3-4 years, aren't the A's just stuck in the same loop, without hope for a sustained winning team? Bring in top prospects, wait 1-2 years for them to make it to the bigs, wait 1-2 years for them to put up good numbers, trade them away for more prospects. If the team doesn't win in the first year or two that all those prospects make it to the bigs, they are all gone. When you look at these moves individually, they may seem like they are shrewd, but in the big picture, I don't think it works.
1/9/2008, 3:52 pm Link to this post   
 
Bhaakon Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

HALL OF FAME POSTER
Global user

Registered: 10-2006
Posts: 3591
Reply | Quote
Re: Jim Callis talks Billy Beane/A's Trades


quote:

But if he re-tools every 3-4 years, aren't the A's just stuck in the same loop, without hope for a sustained winning team? Bring in top prospects, wait 1-2 years for them to make it to the bigs, wait 1-2 years for them to put up good numbers, trade them away for more prospects. If the team doesn't win in the first year or two that all those prospects make it to the bigs, they are all gone. When you look at these moves individually, they may seem like they are shrewd, but in the big picture, I don't think it works.



Beane's not the only GM following that strategy, see: Florida Marlins.

You can certainly argue that it's not the ideal strategy for the Giants, but for a small-budget team like the A's, it may be the only reasonable strategy. If you can't afford to hold on to good players, then all you can do is trade them at/near peak value and hope to replace them internally.

Last edited by Bhaakon, 1/9/2008, 11:41 pm
1/9/2008, 6:22 pm Link to this post   
 


QUICK REPLY

Page:  1  2 





You are not logged in (login)

>BACK TO THE TOP<

LINKS
Retrosheet - Baseball Reference - The Baseball Cube
OFFICIAL SF Giants Board - Active Roster - 40 Man Roster
SF 2010 Schedule - SF Gate on ATT Park - KNBR Podcasts
MLB Rumors - Baseball Think Factory - Hardball Times
Fantasy Baseball Hub - Fan Graphs - Cot's Contracts
Minor Giants Daily Recap - Seat Data - SFDugout.com
AZ Giants Spring/ Fall Blog - Your Giants Korea - El Lefty Malo
Chris Haft - Huff Daddy - Inside Giants Clubhouse
McCovey Chronicles - Dodger Blues - Extra Baggs
LINKS OF FAME