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Re: "The Pen"


quote:

MarcoPolo666 wrote:

I also agree about Taschner. I think that many of the Giants pitchers have "nibblitus" - they spend too much time nibbling around the edges before they demonstrate that they can put the ball over the plate. They get behind in the count and get screwed when they HAVE to come in (or they walk the batter). I think it's a coaching problem.



I agree with you on this one. I think too many pitchers on the SF [sign in to see URL] to nibble too much- and when they don't get calls- they are prone to the "big hit" or walk. Whether that's coaching or our [sign in to see URL] too sure.
12/18/2007, 4:33 pm Link to this post   
 
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"The Pen"


It's not a new problem - it predates Molina, by several years.

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12/18/2007, 4:38 pm Link to this post   
 
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Re: "The Pen"


quote:

MarcoPolo666 wrote:

It's not a new problem - it predates Molina, by several years.



Too many pitchers, too many Catchers to be a coincedence, the only constant is Dave Righetti and Brian Sabean. So either Righetti is teaching this or Sabean targets pitchers that nibble.

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12/18/2007, 5:04 pm Link to this post   
 
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"The Pen"


I think the nibilitus is more than a coaching problem

1) most of these guys don't have great stuff. some have good stuff, few are throwing 95+ or feature a plus breaking ball or something

2) most of these guys are extremely inconsistent with their non-elite stuff, leaving them without the confidence to throw in the zone when the situation calls for it.

3) The offense is so pathetic that they're often afraid to give up a single run, leading to a "whatever you do, don't give up a longball" mentality.

4) are you suggesting that Sabean and company are drooling over Taschner's K rate?
12/18/2007, 5:22 pm Link to this post   
 
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Re: "The Pen"


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Bhaakon wrote:

4) are you suggesting that Sabean and company are drooling over Taschner's K rate?



Taschner's K rate wasn't bad at all last year, over 9 per 9 innings pitched. Just behind Lincecum's.

What I am claiming is that LOTS of Giants' pitchers over the past few years have a "nibling" problem. They need to fix it.

Last edited by MarcoPolo666, 12/18/2007, 6:07 pm


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12/18/2007, 6:06 pm Link to this post   
 
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Re: "The Pen"


quote:

Bhaakon wrote:

I think the nibilitus is more than a coaching problem

1) most of these guys don't have great stuff. some have good stuff, few are throwing 95+ or feature a plus breaking ball or something

2) most of these guys are extremely inconsistent with their non-elite stuff, leaving them without the confidence to throw in the zone when the situation calls for it.

3) The offense is so pathetic that they're often afraid to give up a single run, leading to a "whatever you do, don't give up a longball" mentality.

4) are you suggesting that Sabean and company are drooling over Taschner's K rate?



The problem isn't limited to the pen, Cain has the same problem, and Lincecum seems to be developing Nibbilitus.

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12/18/2007, 6:10 pm Link to this post   
 
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Re: "The Pen"


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Bhaakon wrote:
4) are you suggesting that Sabean and company are drooling over Taschner's K rate?



A K/9 rate of [sign in to see URL] places Taschner in the top 50 pitchers with at least 40 IP.

His K/BB rate of [sign in to see URL] places him in the top 240 pitchers with at least 40 IP.

He has to control his walks.

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12/18/2007, 6:21 pm Link to this post   
 
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Re: "The Pen"


quote:

Bhaakon wrote:

4) are you suggesting that Sabean and company are drooling over Taschner's K rate?



are you suggesting Sabean actually knows what his K rate is?

Marco,

I totally agree on the nibblitis. To me, it's a general lack of game plan. From Bochy to Rags to Garner to Molina and ultimately to the pitchers who should be executing. With a good coaching staff, the pitchers and catchers are prepared for every situation in the game. The pitcher *should* know what the catcher is going to call before he puts his fingers down. But I just can't see it in the current Giants situation. A lot of people claim Molina is a great game caller, but them how does Lincecum's first potential shut-out turn into a 5-1 loss?

The root of the nibble problem to me is that is seems the coaching and pitching staff care more about getting the strikeout than getting the out. How many times did we see Tim or Matt go 0-2 to a pitcher, only to see the count end up full? It happened way too much for my liking this season. On 0-2 it's pretty easy to get a guy to swing at a pitch and get himself out. There's no need to setup that dramatic strike three called that Molina seems to look for. On the flip side, we see way too many of the pitchers with lesser stuff fail to get the first pitch strike and be forced into hitters counts because of it. I don't know if it's confidence or what, but it's a pretty rampant problem.

The Giants as a staff walked 593 batters last year, second only to Florida. This is more than just how talented the pitchers are.

Bhaakon, I agree that most of these relievers don't have the premier stuff of the shutdown relievers of the better teams in the league. That being said, there is no reason for Cain or Lincecum to be suffering from this disease as well. Timmy and Matt can get out any hitter in the league.

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12/18/2007, 6:47 pm Link to this post   
 
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Re: "The Pen"


quote:

A K/9 rate of [sign in to see URL] places Taschner in the top 50 pitchers with at least 40 IP.




K/9 is an flawed measure, since a pitcher who gives up many hits and walks (like Taschner does) will face more batters per inning and be overrated, while pitchers who give up few hits and walks (like, say, Maddux) will see fewer batters per inning and be underrated by the measure. Really, we should be using K per Batter Faced.

I don't know of a handy place to find K/BF, and I think that Taschner's is still good, but not that good.

quote:

The problem isn't limited to the pen, Cain has the same problem, and Lincecum seems to be developing Nibbilitus.




Cain and Lincecum have better stuff than the relievers, but, if anything, they're even more cognizant of the woeful offense. I don't put much stock in wins and losses, but I'm pretty sure that a guy in Cain's situation is bound to let his lack of confidence in the offense effect his pitching.

Last edited by Bhaakon, 12/18/2007, 7:36 pm
12/18/2007, 7:35 pm Link to this post   
 
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"The Pen"


he was already effected last year. He went through a stretch were cain was being too fine with his pitches and it got into trouble. Can't really blame as the offense was horrible when he was pitching.

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12/18/2007, 7:49 pm Link to this post   
 


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