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KCDrummer82
PROVEN VETERAN POSTER
Registered: 04-2007
Location: On a stage near you.
Posts: 227
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Giants just signed Rowand...
Here's another example of lowered expectations: we consider "good" Sabean trades to be ones where we shed bad contracts that Sabean, in fact, signed.
--- Make Yourself Heard.
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12/12/2007, 5:32 pm
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merkin
Bullpen Guard
Registered: 02-2006
Location: Hiding behind a couch
Posts: 11797
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Giants just signed Rowand...
Phillies offered Arbitration..... Type A free agent.... think we just lost our 2nd rounder in 2008....
--- "...the best evaluation of players is subjective judgment...The real baseball world is inevitably going to be hundreds of times more complicated than the model that we construct...." -Bill James
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12/12/2007, 8:02 pm
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Cain43
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Registered: 10-2006
Location: Sacramento
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Re: Giants just signed Rowand...
quote: merkin wrote:
Phillies offered Arbitration..... Type A free agent.... think we just lost our 2nd rounder in 2008....
The news keeps getting better.
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12/12/2007, 8:04 pm
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MarcoPolo666
LIVING LEGEND
Registered: 07-2007
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Giants just signed Rowand...
This article : at mlb.com
says : "If Rowand signs with a team that finished with one of the 15 worst records last season, the Phillies will receive that team's sandwich pick."
That doesn't sound right - I thought that they would get our 2nd round pick.
Brute???
Last edited by MarcoPolo666, 12/12/2007, 8:27 pm
--- Do not suggest trading for somebody for only two years (unless the Giants dump a crappy contract)
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12/12/2007, 8:25 pm
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MarcoPolo666
LIVING LEGEND
Registered: 07-2007
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Giants just signed Rowand...
Oh, and sorry if I posted about Rowand on the wrong thread ....
--- Do not suggest trading for somebody for only two years (unless the Giants dump a crappy contract)
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12/12/2007, 8:28 pm
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croixdestick
Bullpen Catcher
Registered: 04-2006
Location: flying under the radar
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Re: Giants just signed Rowand...
quote: merkin wrote:
Phillies offered Arbitration..... Type A free agent.... think we just lost our 2nd rounder in 2008....
whoa!!! MERKIN LIVES!!!
--- money can't buy you a pennant...suck it doggies!!!
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12/12/2007, 8:29 pm
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Acrosstic
MOST VALUABLE POSTER
Registered: 05-2006
Posts: 562
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Giants just signed Rowand...
There is a reason Rowand was a fan favorite in Philly. Not an easy town to get on the good side of fans.
Rowand plays extremely hard. Jones plays extremely lazy.
Rowand and Jones have near identical OBP stats. Jones has more pure power, but strikes out more. Jones fielding and average have regressed over the last few years, where Rowand appears to be peaking right now.
Even if Rowand only plays 3 of the 5 at a high level, at least he plays hard, and would provide excellent leadership off the bench. Jones is a pile of lard.
At least Rowand is a legitimate hitter. You have to wonder about the crowded outfield. Maybe the plan is to convert Winn to 3B...lol.
Funny that someone mentioned Will Clark, because Rowand kinda reminds me of Clark. A Grinder, 20 HR type guy, plays hard, plays good defense, is a good clubhouse guy, etc.
Well, 5 for 60 isn't that bad, and I actually like this signing more than I thought I would. We have the money to spend for now, and about the time Rowand comes off the books we will need to sign the young stud pitchers.
Seems like there is a plan, of some sort in action here.
I don't think Sabean is done, still a lot of holes, and an abundance of pitchers.
--- http://raidersblog.tk
A competitor will find a way to win. Competitors take bad breaks and drive themselves just that much harder. Quitters take bad breaks and use them as excuses to give up. It’s all a matter of pride. - W. Churchill
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12/13/2007, 12:16 am
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xxERICSMITHxx
ALL-STAR POSTER
Registered: 09-2007
Posts: 282
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Re: Giants just signed Rowand...
Not sure if anyone has insider, but here is Keith Law's take on the signing.
Rowand's not a Giant upgrade
posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 | Feedback | Print Entry
The fact that the addition of Aaron Rowand probably makes the Giants a better club in 2008 should not be seen as an endorsement of the signing. We're talking about a lineup where the fourth-best hitter is the "VACANT" sign hanging on third base.
Rowand is a dead-fastball hitter with a complicated, high-effort swing that produces a lot of sound and fury, but a lot of swings and misses as well. His power is part real and part the effect of the hitters' parks where he's spent his entire career (56 homers at home versus 37 on the road). He's not enough of a contact hitter to predict high averages, and his batting average has fluctuated accordingly throughout his career. He is not patient, going after the first fastball he sees (or thinks he sees), never drawing more than 44 unintentional walks in a season. He's now moving to a bigger ballpark that's about as unfriendly to home runs as Philadelphia's park is friendly to them, and he's not going to make up for the loss of that power with good OBPs.
Jerry Crasnick just named the Giants' lineup (without Rowand) the worst in the majors as currently constructed, and lack of on-base skills is a major reason. The Giants' offense revolved around Barry Bonds, who certainly won't be playing in San Francisco in 2008, leaving the Giants with a sort of baseball anemia. Bonds drew 132 walks in 2007; the rest of the Giants drew 400, with no one over 53. In fact, the Giants put fewer men on base in 2007 than any other NL club but Arizona, and that's including Bonds and his .480 OBP. If you don't put men on base, you don't score. Signing Rowand doesn't help the Giants on this score.
Rowand might lead the Giants in home runs in 2008, but that's again a reflection of his new teammates. No returning Giant hit more than 19 homers in 2007; the top two Giants in that category, Bonds and Pedro Feliz, have both left for free agency.
To the extent that Rowand takes at-bats away from Rajai Davis and Dave Roberts, he'll certainly help, but he doesn't move this club forward significantly. And if Rowand, who has spent his entire career in great home-run parks, sees a major power outage with the move to power-killing AT&T Park (a little tougher on left-handed hitters than right-handed, though), then the Giants aren't really helping themselves in either the power or patience department.
On defense, Rowand's prowess is greatly overrated because of his tendency to make "tough" catches, and his fondness for running into the center-field wall. His range and arm are both average, and he's moving to a big center field that might expose his lack of total range. Rowand is a small upgrade over Roberts, but probably isn't any better than the erratic Randy Winn in center, and his addition leaves Roberts out of a job, since he doesn't hit enough to play an outfield corner. There's also a chance that Fred Lewis will end up on the trading block as well, assuming that the Giants don't want to dump Roberts' contract and insist on playing him and Winn in the corners.
The Giants just gave a very good fourth outfielder who's stretched as an everyday player in most years five years and $60 million. It's reminiscent of the Angels' signing of Gary Matthews Jr. last winter -- a deal they regretted enough to replace him this winter. But the Giants' in-house alternatives were bad enough that the Rowand deal does make them a win or two better per year in the short term. They're not going to get their money's worth, nor was it worth giving up a second-round pick to sign him, and since the Giants are not likely to contend for at least the first three years of Rowand's deal, it's hard to see why they'd move to make such a large and lengthy commitment.
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12/13/2007, 4:23 am
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KCDrummer82
PROVEN VETERAN POSTER
Registered: 04-2007
Location: On a stage near you.
Posts: 227
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Re: Giants just signed Rowand...
quote: xxERICSMITHxx wrote:
Not sure if anyone has insider, but here is Keith Law's take on the signing.
Rowand's not a Giant upgrade
posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 | Feedback | Print Entry
The fact that the addition of Aaron Rowand probably makes the Giants a better club in 2008 should not be seen as an endorsement of the signing. We're talking about a lineup where the fourth-best hitter is the "VACANT" sign hanging on third base.
Rowand is a dead-fastball hitter with a complicated, high-effort swing that produces a lot of sound and fury, but a lot of swings and misses as well. His power is part real and part the effect of the hitters' parks where he's spent his entire career (56 homers at home versus 37 on the road). He's not enough of a contact hitter to predict high averages, and his batting average has fluctuated accordingly throughout his career. He is not patient, going after the first fastball he sees (or thinks he sees), never drawing more than 44 unintentional walks in a season. He's now moving to a bigger ballpark that's about as unfriendly to home runs as Philadelphia's park is friendly to them, and he's not going to make up for the loss of that power with good OBPs.
Jerry Crasnick just named the Giants' lineup (without Rowand) the worst in the majors as currently constructed, and lack of on-base skills is a major reason. The Giants' offense revolved around Barry Bonds, who certainly won't be playing in San Francisco in 2008, leaving the Giants with a sort of baseball anemia. Bonds drew 132 walks in 2007; the rest of the Giants drew 400, with no one over 53. In fact, the Giants put fewer men on base in 2007 than any other NL club but Arizona, and that's including Bonds and his .480 OBP. If you don't put men on base, you don't score. Signing Rowand doesn't help the Giants on this score.
Rowand might lead the Giants in home runs in 2008, but that's again a reflection of his new teammates. No returning Giant hit more than 19 homers in 2007; the top two Giants in that category, Bonds and Pedro Feliz, have both left for free agency.
To the extent that Rowand takes at-bats away from Rajai Davis and Dave Roberts, he'll certainly help, but he doesn't move this club forward significantly. And if Rowand, who has spent his entire career in great home-run parks, sees a major power outage with the move to power-killing AT&T Park (a little tougher on left-handed hitters than right-handed, though), then the Giants aren't really helping themselves in either the power or patience department.
On defense, Rowand's prowess is greatly overrated because of his tendency to make "tough" catches, and his fondness for running into the center-field wall. His range and arm are both average, and he's moving to a big center field that might expose his lack of total range. Rowand is a small upgrade over Roberts, but probably isn't any better than the erratic Randy Winn in center, and his addition leaves Roberts out of a job, since he doesn't hit enough to play an outfield corner. There's also a chance that Fred Lewis will end up on the trading block as well, assuming that the Giants don't want to dump Roberts' contract and insist on playing him and Winn in the corners.
The Giants just gave a very good fourth outfielder who's stretched as an everyday player in most years five years and $60 million. It's reminiscent of the Angels' signing of Gary Matthews Jr. last winter -- a deal they regretted enough to replace him this winter. But the Giants' in-house alternatives were bad enough that the Rowand deal does make them a win or two better per year in the short term. They're not going to get their money's worth, nor was it worth giving up a second-round pick to sign him, and since the Giants are not likely to contend for at least the first three years of Rowand's deal, it's hard to see why they'd move to make such a large and lengthy commitment.
--- Make Yourself Heard.
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12/13/2007, 1:31 pm
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