Payroll Update 12/02/07 https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/t15219 Runboard| Payroll Update 12/02/07 en-us Fri, 29 Mar 2024 05:48:38 +0000 Fri, 29 Mar 2024 05:48:38 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Payroll Update 12/02/07https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p451129,from=rss#post451129https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p451129,from=rss#post451129nondisclosed_email@example.com (merkin)Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:51:36 +0000 Re: Payroll Update 12/02/07https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p451128,from=rss#post451128https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p451128,from=rss#post451128"So my *guess* is that the Giants said "Please retire, we really need that roster spot - we'll pay you anyways."" i would agree thats the likely scenario, so I added to the current version nondisclosed_email@example.com (merkin)Mon, 17 Dec 2007 20:51:20 +0000 Payroll Update 12/02/07https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p451124,from=rss#post451124https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p451124,from=rss#post451124If Matheny *didn't* retire last year, the club would definitely have owed him the money. I don't think that he *had* to retire - he could have just stayed on the 60-day DL all year and the Giants would have paid him. Do you think he said "You're a nice team - forget that last $6M you owe me - you keep it" ?? I certainly don't. I think that Matheny and the Giants had an agreement that he would get paid. Why? Because the Giants desperately needed that roster space because the 40-man roster was completely full, and they had to add two guys (and you can't put a guy on the 60-day DL in January). So my *guess* is that the Giants said "Please retire, we really need that roster spot - we'll pay you anyways." But nobody knows. nondisclosed_email@example.com (MarcoPolo666)Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:50:37 +0000 Re: Payroll Update 12/02/07https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p451112,from=rss#post451112https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p451112,from=rss#post4511122008 #5 Pick in draft Player $ LF D. Roberts 6.5 CF A. Rowand 12 RF Winn 8 26.5 3B R. Aurilia 4.5 bonus $50k @ 300, 350, 400, 450 & 500 Pas SS O. Vizquel 5 2009 option vests at 140 GS ($5.2M) $.3M buyout 2B Durham 7.5 $25k @ 450 Pas $200k bonus if traded 1B D. Ortmeir 0.4 C Molina 6.25 bonus $50k @ 80, $75k @ 95, $100k @ 105, $125k @ 115 $150k @ 125 GS 23.65 SP Zito 14.5 SP Lowry 2.25 SP Cain 0.7 SP Lincecum 0.4 SP J. Sanchez 0.4 18.25 Closer B Wilson 0.4 RP S. Kline 1.75 RP T. Walker 0.75 RP B. Hennessey 0.4 RP R. Messenger 0.4 RP V. Chulk 0.4 RP K. Correia 0.4 4.50 OF Bench F. Lewis 0.4 OF Bench R. Davis 0.4 C Bench E. Alfonzo 0.4 IF Bench L. Niekro 0.4 IF Bench K. Frandsen 0.4 2.0 Dead 2008 $14.4M Total: 89.30M There are $775k in bonuses than can be earned and another $200k to Durham if he is traded. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Jack Flash1)Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:59:48 +0000 Re: Payroll Update 12/02/07https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p451110,from=rss#post451110https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p451110,from=rss#post451110I'm going with this on Matheney since nobody can seem to find anything to the contrary: http://www.mlb4u.com/profile.php?id=513 I added $1M for Bonds.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Jack Flash1)Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:55:27 +0000 Payroll Update 12/02/07https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p451106,from=rss#post451106https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p451106,from=rss#post451106Only if the Giants took out insurance (which they haven't done in the past. The Giants, and not insurance, paid all of Nen's 2003 & 2004 salary).nondisclosed_email@example.com (MarcoPolo666)Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:26:01 +0000 Re: Payroll Update 12/02/07https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p451103,from=rss#post451103https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p451103,from=rss#post451103Wouldn't Matheny's contract be paid for by insurance so there is no reason to buy him out?nondisclosed_email@example.com (yehyeh)Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:07:44 +0000 Payroll Update 12/02/07https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p451013,from=rss#post451013https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p451013,from=rss#post451013I'm pretty sure there's dead money that isn't being counted. Matheny's $2M buyout, Alou's deferred salary from 2006. And what about Bonds' $1M "personal services contract" from the 2002 contract? nondisclosed_email@example.com (MarcoPolo666)Sun, 16 Dec 2007 17:04:11 +0000 https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p450826,from=rss#post450826https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p450826,from=rss#post4508262008 #5 Pick in draft Player $ LF D. Roberts 6.5 CF A. Rowand 12 RF Winn 8 26.5 3B R. Aurilia 4.5 bonus $50k @ 300, 350, 400, 450 & 500 Pas SS O. Vizquel 5 2009 option vests at 140 GS ($5.2M) $.3M buyout 2B Durham 7.5 $25k @ 450 Pas $200k bonus if traded 1B D. Ortmeir 0.4 C Molina 6.25 bonus $50k @ 80, $75k @ 95, $100k @ 105, $125k @ 115 $150k @ 125 GS 23.65 SP Zito 14.5 SP Lowry 2.25 SP Cain 0.7 SP Lincecum 0.4 SP J. Sanchez 0.4 18.25 Closer B Wilson 0.4 RP S. Kline 1.75 RP T. Walker 0.75 RP B. Hennessey 0.4 RP R. Messenger 0.4 RP V. Chulk 0.4 RP K. Correia 0.4 4.50 OF Bench F. Lewis 0.4 OF Bench R. Davis 0.4 C Bench E. Alfonzo 0.4 IF Bench L. Niekro 0.4 IF Bench K. Frandsen 0.4 2.0 Dead 2008 $13.4M Total: 88.30M There are $775k in bonuses than can be earned and another $200k to Durham if he is traded.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Jack Flash1)Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:36:07 +0000 https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p450820,from=rss#post450820https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p450820,from=rss#post450820Can anybody post a spreadsheet as to where the Giants are at today, that would be cool. Just sayin'nondisclosed_email@example.com (22TheThrill)Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:04:46 +0000 https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p450794,from=rss#post450794https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p450794,from=rss#post450794darn - forgot "approximately". I've fixed it now, thx. I don't know how I misread the column as 72.75, instead of 76.75. I also believe that Bonds' deferred payments are largely undervalued for 08, since Bonds is receiving $5M (and interest since 2003) + $5.8 (no interest, 2007) + $1M personal services contract. It also looks like the amount for 2009 is over-valued, since in 09 Bonds should receive $5M (and interest since 2004) + $3.5 (+ interest since 2007) + $1M personal services contract. And the deferred money from the 2002-06 contract *really* shouldn't count, since it's already in the bank. But who knows how the Giants will spin it.nondisclosed_email@example.com (MarcoPolo666)Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:21:04 +0000 Re: …https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p450785,from=rss#post450785https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p450785,from=rss#post450785quote:MarcoPolo666 wrote: quote:Giants2WorldSeries wrote: okay with rowand signing what is the new payroll look like? You're kidding, right? Just in case you aren't : take the salary table(s) where Rowand isn't listed, and add $12M each year for the next 5 years. Bingo. (Hint: for 2008, using Merkin's numbers, that's 72.75+12 = $84.75M.) Wouldn't it be 76.75 - .4= 76.35 + 12= 88.35? Edit: Just wanted to add that I think the Giants are really going to regret signing Rowand.nondisclosed_email@example.com (xxERICSMITHxx)Fri, 14 Dec 2007 03:39:18 +0000 Re: …https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p450784,from=rss#post450784https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p450784,from=rss#post450784quote:Giants2WorldSeries wrote: okay with rowand signing what is the new payroll look like? You're kidding, right? Just in case you aren't : take the salary table(s) where Rowand isn't listed, and add $12M each year for the next 5 years. Bingo. (Hint: for 2008, using Merkin's numbers, that's approximately 72.75+12 = $84.75M.)nondisclosed_email@example.com (MarcoPolo666)Fri, 14 Dec 2007 03:08:47 +0000 https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p450783,from=rss#post450783https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p450783,from=rss#post450783okay with rowand signing what is the new payroll look like?nondisclosed_email@example.com (Giants2WorldSeries)Fri, 14 Dec 2007 01:00:58 +0000 Re: Payroll Update 12/02/07https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448970,from=rss#post448970https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448970,from=rss#post448970Since we are assuming the Giants wont contend in 2008, then i would like to see the management fill up the hole with some cheap 1 year rents and save as much money as they can for FA 2008 and 2009.nondisclosed_email@example.com (ultimategiantsfan)Mon, 03 Dec 2007 01:30:27 +0000 https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448968,from=rss#post448968https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448968,from=rss#post448968Concerning Matheny ... If Matheny *didn't* retire last year, the club would definitely have owed him the money. I don't think that he *had* to retire - he could have just stayed on the 60-day DL all year and the Giants would have paid him. Do you think he said "You're a nice team - forget that last $6M you owe me - you keep it" ?? I certainly don't. I think that Matheny and the Giants had an agreement that he would get paid. Why? Because the Giants desperately needed that roster space because the 40-man roster was completely full, and they had to add two guys (and you can't put a guy on the 60-day DL in January). So my *guess* is that the Giants said "Please retire, we really need that roster spot - we'll pay you anyways." But nobody knows.nondisclosed_email@example.com (MarcoPolo666)Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:54:16 +0000 Re: …https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448967,from=rss#post448967https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448967,from=rss#post448967About Bonds' defferred salary - Concerning his 2002-06 deferments : The $5M deferred from 2003 (that he will collect in 2008) has been in the bank for years - funding deferred payments has been required under the CBA since 2002. (It would have been put in the bank sometime before January 2005.) In fact, the only payments from his 2002-6 contract that aren't required to already be in the bank are the 2005 & 2006 seasons (which must be put in the bank sometime before January 2008 and 2009, respectively, if it hasn't been funded already). So, although Barry will collect them moving forward, most of those $5M payments (+ interest) have already been put in the bank. They would only affect the 2008 budget if the 2006 $5M isn't already in the bank. We can't know. Concerning the deferred money from that ridiculously stupid contract the Giants gave Bonds last year : from an article in the SJMercury : Bonds deferred $5.8 million of this season's $15.8 million salary until 2008. He earned $3.5 million in incentives this season that will be paid (plus 3 percent interest) in 2009.nondisclosed_email@example.com (MarcoPolo666)Mon, 03 Dec 2007 00:48:32 +0000 https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448962,from=rss#post448962https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448962,from=rss#post448962Morris owed $2, Benitez owed $3.2 Matheny retired, so the buyout in unclear... If he retired due to injury, is he due the $? and the sheets been updatednondisclosed_email@example.com (merkin)Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:48:06 +0000 https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448960,from=rss#post448960https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448960,from=rss#post448960Thx Marco Dont know why I had 5 years service stuck in my head.... On Bonds, from Cots Contracts I extracted this $5.8M of 2007 salary deferred $3.5M in 2009 $5M/year of 2002-06 salaries deferred at 3.5%, paid 07-11 10-year personal services contract begins after playing career ends, paying nearly $1M annually to the Not sure how the $5.8 is spread, so I spread over 5 years. I seem to remember something about it being paid over 2 years, so I am updating based on that Will investigate the other deferred and see if I can fine tune thisnondisclosed_email@example.com (merkin)Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:38:25 +0000 https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448938,from=rss#post448938https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448938,from=rss#post448938Concerning deferred payments... They are always a "grey area" (since nobody really know what the hell is going on), but : Where did you get the figures for Bonds' deferred monies? I had always heard that there's the $5M deferred from his 2002 contract (but that's already in the bank). There's also $4.2M salary deferred from his 2007 contract (with no interest) and his perf bonuses (about $3.5M) deferred to 2009 (with interest). That doesn't even remotely match the figures you've put up for Bonds. Why won't the Giants be paying Morris' deferred signing bonus? It's not a late payment of salary, it's a *signing bonus* - owed by the signing team. $2M is "paid at end of contract", which might be iether 2009 or 2010. Dito, why won't the Giants be paying Benitez's deferred signing bonus? That's 1.6M for each of 2008 and 2009. Ditto, why won't the Giants be paying Matheny's buyout? I doubt he was going to simply walk away from the millions of dollars owed him and MLB contracts are guaranteed even if the players are injured (unlike the NHL, for example). His contract had a $2M buyout due him for 2008 if his option wasn't picked up. M Alou appears to have a deferred payment due in 2008, but the exact amount is unclear. nondisclosed_email@example.com (MarcoPolo666)Sun, 02 Dec 2007 19:23:03 +0000 Re: Payroll Update 12/02/07https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448935,from=rss#post448935https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448935,from=rss#post448935I would love to see them put some of that money into the draft funds and maybe some international scouting. Maybe we could pick up some of those guys later in the draft that slip because of signability issues and get more players like Villalona. Invest in the future because we are gonna be bad no matter what we do this offseason.nondisclosed_email@example.com (xxERICSMITHxx)Sun, 02 Dec 2007 18:52:38 +0000 https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448933,from=rss#post448933https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448933,from=rss#post448933A player becomes a FA when he has *at least* 6 years of sevice time before the start of the next season. Mistakes in the numbers and/or years posted : Ortmeier (FA just before 2013) isn't making over league minimum until he's arb eligible (just before the 2010 season) Alfonzo (FA before 2013) isn't making over league minimum until he's arb eligible (just before the 2010 season) Frandsen (FA before 2013) isn't making over league minimum until he's arb eligible (just before the 2010 season) Lewis (FA before 2013) isn't making over league minimum until he's arb eligible (just before the 2010 season) Schierholtz (FA before 2013) making over league minimum until he's arb eligible (just before the 2010 season) Lowry isn't a FA until just before 2011 (he had 2 yrs, 113 days before the 2007 season) Cain is a FA after the 2011 season (just bfore the 2012 season) Lincecum will be a FA just before the 2013 season. Ditto Sanchez. Correia is a FA just before the 2011 season. Hennessey is a FA just before the 2012 season. Taschner is a FA just before the 2013 season nondisclosed_email@example.com (MarcoPolo666)Sun, 02 Dec 2007 18:49:47 +0000 Re: Payroll Update 12/02/07https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448932,from=rss#post448932https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448932,from=rss#post448932quote:chefjuan wrote:  I have little faith in Magowan and Baer not pushing for signing a 'big name' for the sake of marketing. they should have the same amount of season ticket holders next year thanks to some clever deals they made with the allstar tickets this year. either way i dont see a big signing at this point because that big time player isnt out there unless theres a trade.nondisclosed_email@example.com (FATALFART)Sun, 02 Dec 2007 18:49:25 +0000 Re: Payroll Update 12/02/07https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448927,from=rss#post448927https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448927,from=rss#post448927Great topic, Merk. This is one of those things that could also be split into what the Giants should do and what they could do. I think they should and could hold onto the purse strings (of the MLB payroll) with an eye to the future. Maybe spend a little bigger in the draft (since they'll picking so high) or dedicate a little more money to the international market. I would hate for the Giants to be in place like they are with the 5th pick, and have to choose on signability rather than talent. Based on the moves (or lack there of) so far, I think there may be a glimmer of hope that they are financially plannning of the future. Perhaps Magowan's change of tone about the deferred payments affecting payroll is a sign that the Giants won't go on a bargain basement spending spree like they did last year. But I have little faith. I have little faith in Sabean avoiding the impluse to spend or out bidding himself or giving raises they just aren't warranted (vizquel). I have little faith in Magowan and Baer not pushing for signing a 'big name' for the sake of marketing. nondisclosed_email@example.com (chefjuan)Sun, 02 Dec 2007 17:46:47 +0000 Re: Payroll Update 12/02/07https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448926,from=rss#post448926https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448926,from=rss#post448926quote:2) The Free Agent Class of 2008 is much better than 2007 It seems like this has been the case almost every season since Vlad was a free agent, and every season a combination of extensions, injuries, and ineffectiveness totally deflates the impending free agent class. In a league with no salary cap, there's no way to accurately predict which players will actually become free agents and which teams will be able to pursue them. I'm beginning to suspect that saving up for future FA classes has become a fool's strategy. That's not to say that the team shouldn't maintain financial flexibility, just that they shouldn't purposely put themselves in a position to have to go out and find more than, maybe, one really good FA to sign in any given offseason (not that the Giants have much choice at this point). nondisclosed_email@example.com (Bhaakon)Sun, 02 Dec 2007 17:37:33 +0000 Payroll Update 12/02/07https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448924,from=rss#post448924https://boardsfgiantsfans.runboard.com/p448924,from=rss#post448924 Assuming the following 1) The Giants have about $20-30 million left on the payroll. 2) The Free Agent Class of 2008 is much better than 2007 3) No matter what signings the Giants make in 2007, they will not compete in 2008 Do you think Giants management are committed to spending their entire payroll on 2007 to help justify the high costs of a ballgame? Or do you think they will either spend the cash on 1 year deals and/ or save for a future date? nondisclosed_email@example.com (merkin)Sun, 02 Dec 2007 17:20:03 +0000