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Egan2581 Profile
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Re: The 2008 draft - Who Fits?


quote:

Cameron Frye wrote:

quote:

Avenge02 wrote:

quote:

Oh, and if Sabean drafts a pitcher, he should be fired immediately.



I must [sign in to see URL] would welcome drafting a pitcher at #5. Here are my reasons:

The organization has proven to be far better at developing pitchers and hitters. Having a failed draftee at # 5 would be costly.

Drafting pitchers melds w/ management's pitching and defense philosophy

It is impossible to have too many pitchers.

The Sabean premise that surplus pitching can always be traded, is a valid one. The rub, of course, is receiving an equal or greater return.



First, "management's pitching and defense philosophy" is a nice way of saying "We facked up this team so bad that we don't have a legit power hitter to bat cleanup and we cannot seem to pay a legit power bat enough money to come to San Francisco." If you actually believe that their intended goal is to develop a team like the 1985 St. Louis Cardinals who can win the NL despite having only one guy with more than 20 bombs, well, then you are living in 1985.

Second, your comment that having a "failed draftee at #5 would be costly." is ignorant because pitchers can fail just as easily as hitters. Sincerely, Jason Grilli. With the #5 pick in the draft, there will be VERY LITTLE difference in the ceiling of a top hitter or a top pitcher.

Third, your assumption that it is impossible to have too many good arms is not a valid one. For reasons why, I give you: Dave Roberts, Omar Vizquel, Randy Winn, Benjie Molina, Aaron Rowand, Ray Durham, Dan Ortmeier and Rich Aurilia. When THAT is your starting lineup and that is the best lineup you can possibly field on a given day, no amount of pitching is going to save you.

Finally, making a trade is nice, but Brian Sabean has not made a legit trade to improve the Giants to anyone other than Dave Littlefield. Since Pittsburgh finally wised up and fired Littlefield, Sabean no longer has a GM dumber than he is to take advantage of.

The bottom line is that the Giants have NO ONE in their farm system who is going to threaten the 20 HR plateau before my son reaches middle school - and he's in second grade this year. As the big name bats have no interest in signing with such an inept general manager, the only way the Giants will land an impact bat is to draft one.

Now comes the fun part. Let's name all the impact bats Brian Sabean has ever drafted. OK, I'll go first: ......

Your turn.



Pedro Feliz j/k
 emoticon

I am right along your line of thinking Cam
3/12/2008, 11:07 am Link to this post   
 
Cameron Frye Profile
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Re: The 2008 draft - Who Fits?


quote:

Egan2581 wrote:

Pedro Feliz j/k
 emoticon

I am right along your line of thinking Cam



Feliz was an undrafted free agent who signed with the Giants in 1994. He doesn't count. The last player Sabean drafted who started more than 100 games in a season for the Giants was ...


Post was edited by a man who realizes that Benard was drafted even before Sabean became GM.

Folks, for us as fans to trust that this man will be able to draft and develop legit MLB hitters, I am going to need proof that he can do it. So far, Kevin Frandsen, Jason Ellison, Todd LInden and Tony Torcato do not give me hope that he knows what he's doing.

Last edited by Cameron Frye, 3/12/2008, 11:25 am


---
The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.

~Rick Wise, 1974


3/12/2008, 11:19 am Link to this post   
 
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Re: The 2008 draft - Who Fits?


quote:

Cameron Frye wrote:
Feliz was an undrafted free agent who signed with the Giants in 1994. He doesn't count.

[...]
Folks, for us as fans to trust that this man will be able to draft and develop legit MLB hitters, I am going to need proof that he can do it. So far, Kevin Frandsen, Jason Ellison, Todd LInden and Tony Torcato do not give me hope that he knows what he's doing.



If Feliz "doesn't count" because your specific question was about drafting, or the thread title is "2008 draft", that's cool. But signing guys from Latin America is also a way to get impact bats for a team, and should not be ignored (which the Giants did for a long time - but that seems to be changing). Personally, I would like to have a guy like Miguel Cabrera on the Giants (who was an undrafted FA signing out of Venezuela). And *maybe* "Villa" will pan out - I certainly hope so.

The Giants should *definitely* not be ignoring Latin America or the Pacific Rim when looking for talent. That would be very foolish.

Last edited by MarcoPolo666, 3/12/2008, 11:33 am
3/12/2008, 11:31 am Link to this post   
 
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Re: The 2008 draft - Who Fits?


quote:

MarcoPolo666 wrote:

quote:

Cameron Frye wrote:
Feliz was an undrafted free agent who signed with the Giants in 1994. He doesn't count.

[...]
Folks, for us as fans to trust that this man will be able to draft and develop legit MLB hitters, I am going to need proof that he can do it. So far, Kevin Frandsen, Jason Ellison, Todd LInden and Tony Torcato do not give me hope that he knows what he's doing.



If Feliz "doesn't count" because your specific question was about drafting, or the thread title is "2008 draft", that's cool. But signing guys from Latin America is also a way to get impact bats for a team, and should not be ignored (which the Giants did for a long time - but that seems to be changing). Personally, I would like to have a guy like Miguel Cabrera on the Giants (who was an undrafted FA signing out of Venezuela). And *maybe* "Villa" will pan out - I certainly hope so.

The Giants should *definitely* not be ignoring Latin America or the Pacific Rim when looking for talent. That would be very foolish.



Um, Marco. Pedro Feliz was signed as an undrafted free agent in NINETEEN NINETY FOUR. Brian Sabean was hired as GM of the Giants in NINETEEN NINETY SEVEN.

He doesn't count because he was signed before Sabean arrived. If you wanna give Sabean retro-active credit for Feliz, how about doing so for Bobby Bonds or Willie Mays or Willie Mac or Will Clark or Robbie Thompson?


Last edited by Cameron Frye, 3/12/2008, 11:39 am


---
The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.

~Rick Wise, 1974


3/12/2008, 11:38 am Link to this post   
 
Avenge02 Profile
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Re: The 2008 draft - Who Fits?


quote:


Folks, for us as fans to trust that this man will be able to draft and develop legit MLB hitters, I am going to need proof that he can do it. So far, Kevin Frandsen, Jason Ellison, Todd LInden and Tony Torcato do not give me hope that he knows what he's doing.



Exactly, the Giants are better at drafting pitchers than positional players…Jason Grilli, Dave Ardsma, Craig Whitaker and co. to the contrary.

I firmly believe that you reinforce success, not futility. This is the most persuasive of the rationales I cited, that supports drafting a pitcher at #5.


3/12/2008, 11:45 am Link to this post   
 
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Re: The 2008 draft - Who Fits?


quote:

Avenge02 wrote:

quote:


Folks, for us as fans to trust that this man will be able to draft and develop legit MLB hitters, I am going to need proof that he can do it. So far, Kevin Frandsen, Jason Ellison, Todd LInden and Tony Torcato do not give me hope that he knows what he's doing.



Exactly, the Giants are better at drafting pitchers than positional players…Jason Grilli, Dave Ardsma, Craig Whitaker and co. to the contrary.

I firmly believe that you reinforce success, not futility. This is the most persuasive of the rationales I cited, that supports drafting a pitcher at #5.



Being "better" at drafting pitchers does not mean he's good at drafting either. Look, I hate the man and want him fired more than anything else as a Giants fan, but being fair requires me to state that I understand his philosophy until very recently has been to draft arms so he can trade them and build a lineup via free agency.

But even knowing that, he STILL has been unable to draft and develop a single everyday player in the major leagues in ten full years. Realizing that the draft is generally more than 50 rounds deep, the fact that he has not even ACCIDENTALLY produced an everyday player is borderline incompetence.

As for the idea that he's some savant when it comes to drafting pitching, I give you Cain, Lincecum and a heap of average pitchers like Lowry, Aardsma, Jerome Williams, Kevin Correia and Brad Hennessey. Seriously, past the first two, none of the guys on the list is anything more than a journeyman, so PLEASE don't try to tell me that he should draft pitching. He cannot even do THAT right.

Last edited by Cameron Frye, 3/12/2008, 11:58 am


---
The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws.

~Rick Wise, 1974


3/12/2008, 11:57 am Link to this post   
 
tehehd Profile
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Re: The 2008 draft - Who Fits?


But even knowing that, he STILL has been unable to draft and develop a single everyday player in the major leagues in ten full years. Realizing that the draft is generally more than 50 rounds deep, the fact that he has not even ACCIDENTALLY produced an everyday player is borderline incompetence.
-------
if this wasn't so sad, it would be hilarious.

---
"in the early days all i hoped was to make a living out of what i did best. but, since there's no real market for masturbation i had to fall back on my bass playing abilities."

les claypool
3/12/2008, 12:08 pm Link to this post   
 
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Re: The 2008 draft - Who Fits?


Brian Sabean is afraid of a draft for the simple fact that he hates to be cold.

INT. GRIT FARMHOUSE - NIGHT

SABEAN smokes from his corn cob pipe while he adjusts the strings of his banjo.

           SABEAN
        That oughta do it.

He settles in, prepares to play an old, gritty song that only a gamer would know, when, suddenly --

WHOOSH.

A draft of air rustles papers on his desk. Sabean sets down his banjo, grabs for his shawl, wraps it over him as he sticks his crusty, nasty feet into hundred year old slippers.

           SABEAN
        Somebody shut that door! I'll
        catch a chill from that draft,
        consarn it!

Scene.
3/12/2008, 1:19 pm Link to this post   
 
TheMalcontent Profile
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Re: The 2008 draft - Who Fits?


quote:

tehehd wrote:

But even knowing that, he STILL has been unable to draft and develop a single everyday player in the major leagues in ten full years. Realizing that the draft is generally more than 50 rounds deep, the fact that he has not even ACCIDENTALLY produced an everyday player is borderline incompetence.
-------
if this wasn't so sad, it would be hilarious.



They says the draft is a crap shoot, well if that's the case just throwing darts at names would produce an everyday player like every other team in Baseball has been able to do over the last 10 years.

---

3/12/2008, 3:19 pm Link to this post   
 
MarcoPolo666 Profile
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Re: The 2008 draft - Who Fits?


quote:

Cameron Frye wrote:

{Feliz} doesn't count because he was signed before Sabean arrived.



Brain fart on my part. 1994. Duh.
3/12/2008, 5:12 pm Link to this post   
 


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