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Egan2581 Profile
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Sabean


He came in here when this franchise was struggling and really turned things around with some solid trades and free agent signings and what not. We went to the playoffs numerous times and almost won the whole thing in 02. He receieved all these acolades for what he accomplished here during those years and rightly so. He did an outstanding job. However, given his track record in recent years, if they do not turn things around and have a decent year, he needs to be shown the door at the end of the season. I am not going to sit here and list all his screw ups. It would be unfair to pin the last few years entirely on him. But to me, his biggest mistake, has been his failure to overhaul this damn bullpen. I can understand the fact that he was banking on Rob Nen to come back healthy a few of those years. I can even forgive the first year Benitez suffered that devestating injury. What I cannot let pass, is the fact that after watching the pen blow lead after lead, and game after game last year, that he did absolutely NOTHING to rectify the situation this past offseason. I mean anyone that has witness the debacle down in the pen in recent years can clearly see this is the achillies heal of this team, and quite possibly the biggest reason for our poor seasons of late. I don't understand why he didn't go out and at least try to fix the situation. We pretty much have the same bullpen as last year! To me this is the final straw. We have a solid rotation, potentially a top 5 rotation 1-5 in the NL and an offense that is capapble of scoring runs and is decent and will score enough runs to win on a consistent basis IMO. But, the pen is a carbon copy of last season. and they will be our downfall once again and it's just absolutely frusturating.

Last edited by Egan2581, 4/5/2007, 6:39 am
4/5/2007, 6:35 am Link to this post   
 
92388 Profile
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I agree. Just look at John Schierholz and Mark Shapiro. The Braves and Indians had a !@#$ ass bullpen last year and those GM's addressed that. The Braves got Mike Gonzalez and Rafael Soriano. Schierholz also acquired Wickman during the season and now the Braves have one of the best pens in the league after the disaster last year. The Indians signed Borowski, Roberto Hernandez, Foulke, and Fultz. It's not great but at least Shapiro tried addressing the pen and signed some of the better relievers out there.

That's the difference between Sabean and an elite GM.

Also, Sabean's downfall started when he traded for AJ.
4/5/2007, 8:45 am Link to this post   
 
Egan2581 Profile
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Re: …


quote:

92388 wrote:

I agree. Just look at John Schierholz and Mark Shapiro. The Braves and Indians had a !@#$ ass bullpen last year and those GM's addressed that. The Braves got Mike Gonzalez and Rafael Soriano. Schierholz also acquired Wickman during the season and now the Braves have one of the best pens in the league after the disaster last year. The Indians signed Borowski, Roberto Hernandez, Foulke, and Fultz. It's not great but at least Shapiro tried addressing the pen and signed some of the better relievers out there.

That's the difference between Sabean and an elite GM.

Also, Sabean's downfall started when he traded for AJ.




We have harped on the AJ trade enough in the past. At this point it is niether here nor there. The bullpen is the here and now and is by far the biggest sore spot for me. I know I am stating the obvious here, but this team will not win with the current state that this bullpen is in.
4/5/2007, 8:51 am Link to this post   
 
92388 Profile
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What can Sabean do now that the season has started to improve the 'pen?
4/5/2007, 8:53 am Link to this post   
 
Egan2581 Profile
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92388 wrote:

What can Sabean do now that the season has started to improve the 'pen?



Getting rid of Taschner would be a good starting point, but I am not sure that at this point he can really do anything. I am not sure that there are many viable options in the minors. Brian Wilson has already shown that he is not ready to be up here full time. About the only thing he can do at this point is just hope that the guys down there can start throwing well and get this thing turned around.
4/5/2007, 8:56 am Link to this post   
 
Hairball Profile
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Here's a possibility for what Sabean can do:

Bring in Lincecum to close. Yes, a desperation move, but he WOULD do well, and then Benitez could fulfill the Linebrink role that he might be able to thrive in. So you've got your 8th and 9th inning guys, and their upside in those roles is very high. Now you can let the rest of the bullpen duke it out for the other spots. Taschner probably gets sent down to make room for Lincecum.

Yes, I know Lincecum should be a starter, and he will, but if you're desperate, and there are no other options, well, it's an idea anyway. Frankly, I think a 7,8,9 inning plan of Sanchez, Benitez, and Lincecum would spook opposing batters and work well. The Giants are fairly starter-rich, so I'd be willing to risk using 2 would-be starters in relief.
4/5/2007, 9:27 am Link to this post   
 
Egan2581 Profile
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Re: …


quote:

Hairball wrote:

Here's a possibility for what Sabean can do:

Bring in Lincecum to close. Yes, a desperation move, but he WOULD do well, and then Benitez could fulfill the Linebrink role that he might be able to thrive in. So you've got your 8th and 9th inning guys, and their upside in those roles is very high. Now you can let the rest of the bullpen duke it out for the other spots. Taschner probably gets sent down to make room for Lincecum.

Yes, I know Lincecum should be a starter, and he will, but if you're desperate, and there are no other options, well, it's an idea anyway. Frankly, I think a 7,8,9 inning plan of Sanchez, Benitez, and Lincecum would spook opposing batters and work well. The Giants are fairly starter-rich, so I'd be willing to risk using 2 would-be starters in relief.




While I agree with most of what you said, I disagree that Lincecum should close. Benitez has thrown the ball well, and until he proves otherwise we need to stick with him. I however, would not be against bringing Lincecum up eventually to pitch out of the pen. I know a lot of you here may disagree with that line of thought. I believe Lincecum long term has more value to this franchise as a starter, but in the short term I would not be against putting him in the pen to get his feet wet in the big leagues this year. The Dodgers are doing it this year with Billingsley. The Twins did it with Santana when he first came up, and the Cards did the same with Wainright last year.
4/5/2007, 9:33 am Link to this post   
 
TheMalcontent Profile
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Throwing Lincecum in the Pen in a pointless effort to improve this team to an 80-85 win season instead of a 70-80 win season would hurt this franchise for the future, you can't just go throwing your top Starting prospects into a relief role on the Big Club, that's where failed Starters should go. I wouldn't be opposed to Bringing up Lincecum to start and move Ortiz, or Morris to the Closer Role. Johan Santana is the exception not the rule.

Some Failed Starters that found roles as Closers: Mariano Rivera, Eric Gagne, Joe Nathon.

---

4/5/2007, 3:47 pm Link to this post   
 
BruteSentiment Profile
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Sabean


Santana wasn't even CLOSE to being in this situation. He was a Rule 5 draftee that HAD to be on the roster, or else he would've been lost. He was placed in the bullpen to be hidden as much as possible, and predictably, he got shelled to the tune of a [sign in to see URL] ERA.

Billingsley was a major league starter last year. I don't know why the Dodgers are changing him this year, but it's not for a need in the bullpen.

Wainwright might be a comparison, but then look at the so-called posterboy for this technique: Jonathan Papelbon. Sure, they kept saying he was going to be a starter again right up until two weeks [sign in to see URL] then they put him back at closer, with rumors about questions of his ability to hold up to a full year of starting. WHOOPS. We'll see if Wainwright (or Billingsley) hold up...

Bottom line for me: DON'T !@#$ WITH THE TOP 10 PROSPECT (and when I say Top 10, I mean in all of baseball). Just don't. Don't risk it. Don't fool with it. Don't push it. He won't solve this team's problems, why risk it for this team?

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SFDugout.com - It's back! Top 50 Giants Prospects currently running!
4/5/2007, 8:06 pm Link to this post   
 
Lionel Mandrake Profile
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Sabean


It's also Sabean's fault that Solomon Torres has 3 saves in the first week.

Sonofubitch.

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Even after all this time, the Sun never says to the Earth, "You owe me." Look what happens with a love like that: It lights up the whole sky.
Hafiz
4/5/2007, 9:03 pm Link to this post   
 


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